Women in Combat Units = the Evolution of our Military
I wrote my first post on women in combat back in November of 2011. I had no website then, so it wasn’t published until this past March.
Why did I write the piece?
I’ve served alongside female Soldiers for the past twenty years. My first exposure to blatant sexism in the military was when I was assigned to the 82d Military Police Company as a First Lieutenant. The direct support platoons of that company (those platoons that directly support Infantry Brigades) had just been gender-integrated. This was 1999, mind you. About two years later a female officer was finally placed into that unit. So, yes, believe it or not, thirteen short years ago we acknowledged that a woman could serve in a Military Police unit.
What I always found insulting as a young officer was when the Army made Soldiers attend equal opportunity classes. So with one breath the Army was preaching equal opportunity and in another breath practicing discrimination based on gender. Back then we used to say we were “all green” because of our green camouflaged uniforms. This was a lie and we all knew it.
As a young officer I never directly worked for nor had a peer that was a woman. Sure I had “token” female Soldiers in my platoon but no female leaders within my unit. I was on the periphery of this issue with no real stake or educated viewpoint. So I went about my merry uninformed way. This all changed when I arrived to Germany as a new Captain.
I became the logistics officer for a Military Police Battalion. The Battalion’s executive officer, Major Gillian Boice (my boss), the logistics non commission officer, Sergeant First Class Cheryl Wilson (my right hand “man”), and my section’s Solders were all women. I was surrounded by female Soldiers!
I gained true perspective from this experience and grew to value the dynamics a woman brought to an organization. I quickly learned that women were my equal and in some cases better, as a Soldier. I also experienced war and witnessed first-hand women serving in combat. I was evolving as a Soldier, leader, and person.
Two years later I assumed command of the 127th Military Police Company. The company was over 20% women and I had female leaders in the unit. As the boss I didn’t worry about gender, race, religion, etc. I wanted talented people. You perform or you get out of the way for someone that does. Hence the Boris the Bear story from my last post. I owed it to those Soldiers–America’s sons and daughters–the best qualified leader I could find to lead them into harm’s way.
That is still my philosophy—best qualified. I believe that our Military should leverage the very best leadership we have within our ranks.
While deployed to Baghdad, my company fought through complex ambushes, was blown up by explosive devices, defended
attacks on Iraqi Police Stations, rebuilt those stations, supported and trained the Iraqi Police all while being shot at on a daily basis. Female Soldiers were integrated throughout the unit in every capacity. Women were placed throughout the battlefield.
I found it incredibly ironic that women weren’t allowed in combat unit but were engaged in combat on a daily basis. I began to feel that this is an insult to all service members that serve. Continuing to discriminate within our uniformed ranks is a disgrace and an embarrassment. We dishonor those 144 women who have made the ultimate sacrifice and the 868 injured in Iraq and Afghanistan in the defense of our nation.
Since the Gulf War (and maybe earlier) women have been engaged in direct combat with the unit. But, you see, when nearly 20% of your manpower comes with limits the big military machine doesn’t work like it should. Army leaders realized a long time ago that “Direct Ground Combat Definition and Assignment Rule” from 1994 was untenable. This rule excluded women from being assigned to units involved in ground combat that could involve hostile fire and physical contact “well forward on the battlefield.”
I love that quote “well forward of the battlefield.” I have visions of Patton steamrolling across France in a race with Montgomery to see who enters Germany first.
In my wars there is no linear battlefield. Thus the mentality that there is a location that is “well forward of the battlefield” is obsolete. Just like the government’s policy on women in combat.
So, how has it happened that women have been engaged in daily fighting the enemy in Iraq and Afghanistan on this non-linear battlefield? No, the military didn’t violate the rule. We found a loophole. Instead of “assigning” women to combat units, we “attached” them. Assigned is a permanent relationship. Attached is temporary.
Back to my original question. Why did I write my first piece on women in combat?
The battlefield and enemy evolve. We as a military and nation must evolve as well. I wrote the piece because my opinion is current, relevant and from what I’ve seen with my own eyes. Apparently the military leadership feels the same way. We just need Congress to catch up.
We as a military are adapting to combat the evolving worldwide threat. Society now must evolve with us. I’ll put this in layman’s terms for some folks. Sexists, bigots, and chauvinistic pigs–this is going to happen. It is time for you to come out of your narrow world and into reality. Women aren’t second class citizens or service members.
I recommend that you check out the other posts in this series if you haven’t already.
Women Shouldn’t Be in Combat Units!
Reasons Why Women Shouldn’t Be in Combat Units
Here are More Reasons Why Women Have no Place in Combat Units
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35 comments on “Women in Combat Units = the Evolution of our Military”
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Kevin,
Thanks for this series of posts. I retired from the Army under duress, which is to say that I was between a rock and a hard place and decided it was best to cut my losses. I never really got over it until recently, and it still stings. I was told – point blank, behind closed doors – that despite being the senior person on staff in my division, I would not have the leadership position because I was a woman. I had office equipment thrown at me by a “peer” who was really a subordinate. I was stripped of my dignity and made the laughing stock of the organization because I was a woman – and for no other reason, after 20 years of service. Even the EO and IG of the installation told me it would be a tough road without a definitive outcome if I pursued a complaint. So I checked out.
I was without a doubt the best person for the job. Prejudices kept me from using my finely honed talents to serve our country on the basis of gender alone.
I am still proud of my service because I know I did the right thing and the best job I could under the circumstances. I have always hoped that the women who came after me had it easier taking their rightful place among their comrades. Then I read recently of a female CSM who was stripped of her authority in much the same way I was at Fort Jackson and it broke my heart. But at least light has been shed on her case.
Thank you for your service and your open-minded leadership. The Army – and the world – could use more people like you!
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Kevin Hanrahan says:
Hi Susan. Your story is amazing. You were a trailblazer- going where no woman had gone before. I am not surprised with the outcome though. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the person that told you these things behind closed doors had never worked for a woman. They couldn’t or didn’t appreciate what you brought to the team. I hope you know that because of your scarifies you made it easier for some other great female Soldier to come behind you. They probably surpassed where you had been because of you.
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Interestingly, the man who told me I would not be allowed to serve in my assigned position as a leader because I was female was a black man! It didn’t surprise me that the white men above him went along with it (not sure it didn’t come from them actually), but I never got over how one minority soldier – who had undoubtedly faced his own challenges to carve a niche for himself – could then inflict the same injustice upon another. Really sad.
And this female CSM at Ft Jackson is living the same story today – at the same installation. A decade has passed and nothing has changed – at least not there.
Best,
Susan-
WOW Susan. I am speechless on that one….. um……OK, here goes…… that dude is a huge disappointment. I could say more but I will let you all imagine what is going on in my mind right now.
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John says: Well said Kevin. I get sh*t for agreeing with your point of view on this all the time. I’ve seen women fight and lead just as well and in some cases better than their male counterparts. I’ve also lost a friend and fellow handler who was a female, standing IN FRONT, of all the other male troops with her dog clearing their way to safety. I think anyone who says women can’t perform the same jobs has obviously never served with a strong, well trained woman.
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You bring up an awesome point John. Once which I want to pontificate on in another posts on this topic.
“I think anyone who says women can’t perform the same jobs has obviously never served with a strong, well trained woman.”
Perfect John…and so true. Spoken from a man today…who is in Afghanistan leading a special forces unit in harms way with his dog.
aj Melnick says: WOW! Strong sentiments and thank you all for them. I was a reporter an eon ago and I remember being well accepted by the people on the newspaper staff as well as those whom I reported on. I guess that was the exception back then. It’s more than time for the military to do the same.
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I really don’t see how we can’t AJ. I am hopeful that in the next few years it will happen. I provided a link in the article in case folks missed it in the news- the movement has already began.
Anymouse (Art@alf1361) says: I admit I find this trend towards “gender equality” one of the major problems with not just the the US but all modern countries. I see no reason why the military should follow the rest of the country down that hole. Women should not be encouraged to reject their natural role as caregivers and mothers, and it is indeed harmful for society to follow that path. I firmly oppose what we have in front of us, which is a society where great evils like abortion, gay adoption etc. are tolerated, and I can’t see how the use of women as soldiers does anything other than play into this. Every great civilization has always acknowledged that the place of women is not in combat. I don’t see how utilizing the half of our population who are in a position to become wives and mothers as substitutes for male soldiers is a good idea. The actions taken by higher ranking officers to implement this process through the use of loopholes is inappropriate in the highest. If the entire area is a combat situation, then women should simply be excluded from the area. I know some will find my view old fashioned, but I fail to see how these things would occur in a healthy and traditional country.
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Dear Anymouse,
As a woman who honorably served our country for over 20 years, I submit to you that the issue is not any one person’s opinion. We all have them. Rather, the core of this issue is about people having a right to choose their own path and not have it impeded by the prejudices or “opinions” of others. Your viewpoint is a popular one, but it fails to recognize a simple fact: Women have a right to choose their own path (perhaps you’ve heard of the equal rights amendment). We have an all-volunteer military at this time. No woman will be forced into combat in our current system, as no man in our country is forces to that decision, either. But if a woman chooses to do so and is capable and qualified she should be permitted to do so without having to do battle with men who prefer she be at home being their “caregiver.” There are other countries with fully integrated military forces that function well.
If there were no women deployed to hot spots around the world, our fighting force would be inadequate to meet the mission. Interestingly, there are not enough men volunteering for the military to fully staff it.
When the bullets are flying, no one is concerned with gender or sexual preference. The only thing anyone wants to know is if their fellow Soldier can do the job, return fire, and help everyone accomplish the objective and get out alive.
On a less PC note, I really don’t need a man to keep me safe, barefoot, and pregnant. I have a right to make my own choices and would very much like you and those who share your view to get out of the way and let me make them.
Regards,
Susan-
I respect your service, but I respectfully state that it is not merely your decision. The military is created by the Federal Government to defend the country and constitution. Modern gender roles are not good for America or other countries. I can’t see how having women in the military does anything other than play into those problems, although I acknowledge there are few social statistics (that I know of) dealing with military service. The native born population in this country barely reproduces itself, if at all. The countries in Europe are even worse. I simply can’t support this kind of social change. It is not healthy.
Societies with young women in paid labor and working mothers are societies that have weakened the family. The more traditional societies such as the Faroe Islands, much of India, our friends and enemy’s in Afghanistan etc. have not experienced those kinds of harmful social changes. I must stand on the side of our traditional culture and society.
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You can say you respect my service and then disrespect me as a person in the same sentence and fool a handful of people into thinking you are an honorable person. But you can’t fool me.
Your comments throughout this post reveal that you are not only a bigot (or if you prefer, “traditionalist”) with regard to women’s role in American society, but perhaps bigoted in matters of race, sexual orientation, and even the US Constitution and its amendments. The latter IS the law of the land, Sir, and it gives me the right to choose how I live my life. YOU don’t have a choice about that.
Webster’s Dictionary definition of ‘Bigot’ : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
Not only that, but you are a coward hiding behind an anonymous internet identity. I wish you well in your pursuit of an old-world life style. Have you considered a geographical cure to your unhappiness? Seems like you have some spots identified that might work well for you.
I, for one, am not going to continue to engage in a pointless and inflammatory dialogue on someone else’s blog.
My apologies, Kevin. You’ve been a good sport. Thanks again for the article.
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I believe in my country and traditions, and oppose Liberalism. I see you are offended by what I wrote. I find this devotion to political correctness annoying, although predictable. I posses no bigotry, simply a respect for our society and a respect for biology. Do you honestly believe modern societies are functional in the long run? I simply don’t, and see no evidence it can be made so. The traditional devision of the genders is what is healthiest for society. Women soldiers are not a direct cause of social problems, but they are a symptom of the breakdown of healthy social norms in this country. I won’t comment any more because I can see a lot of people are offended. I will add a few links if you want to find other arguments on this issue.
http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2011/08/a-heros-testimony-on-women-soldiers/
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Julia Hugo Rachel says:
Dear Anymouse:
Your comment “Women should not be encouraged to reject their natural role as caregivers and mothers, and it is indeed harmful for society to follow that path”. Caught my attention.
Hundreds of thousands of men have served in Afganistan and Iraq. Military children are warriors in their own right as they sacrafice a parent on deployment so that all people can have freedom in the USA.
To date, over 220,000 women have served in Iraq and Afganistan. Over 33% of these women are mothers.
Military children are especially proud of their mothers who fight for their country. They are equally as proud of their mothers and fathers. What kind of role model example does the american woman in the military set for her children?
Valor, Integrity, Strength, Character, Committment, Duty, Honor, etc….
Stay at home wives are incredible; yet this is a PERSONAL choice for each mother to make. And from experience, I can say, a very difficult choice to make.
What was once thought of as “the right hing to do “15-50 years ago” (stay at home) is now considered an option; and one that is difficult to decide.
However, this option is a personal and family choice; to be made by each individual family. It is also a “right” and has been documented by law.
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“Stay at home wives are incredible; yet this is a PERSONAL choice for each mother to make. And from experience, I can say, a very difficult choice to make.
What was once thought of as “the right thing to do “15-50 years ago” (stay at home) is now considered an option; and one that is difficult to decide..”
It is sad that society has made that decision difficult. That has been harmful to women, families, and children.-
Anymouse:
I agree in part with what you are saying. When I decided to have children, I decided to stay at home and raise them myself. I scheduled my work and projects around my sons schedule. I was proud to be a stay at home mom. Yet when duty called for a special project, our entire family voted on the decision that wasto be made. I would take the project. It was unanimous.
Then, When my son became critically ill with a Gulf War Illness type disease; there was no family decisionto be made. I rushed to his side and stayed there for ten years, never waivering.
Good Moms come in all shapes, sizes and abilities. My son is alive today because I refused to give up, even when he was put into Hospice. My son is also alive today because of the U.S. Military. Never Quit, Never Give Up. Its’ in our blood. He fought to live, so he can serve. A slight example of thisstrength for him, was my dedication to this country, amongst others in the family.
Stay at home Moms deserve as much credit as working moms. I respectfully disagree with you on your point that “It is sad that society has made that decision difficult. That has been harmful to women, families, and children”.
It is not the working Mom that has been harmful to children. But rather lack of Parenting that has probably done far more harm. Just my opinion.
Respectfully,
Julia
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Julia Hugo Rachel says: Excellent article Kevin. I admire the folks that are “speaking out” about their stories. These are true warriors. To have served our Country with dignity and valor, only to be kicked out due to gender; is akin to reverting back to the dark ages. I admire these womens’ bravery and can only hope that these women will be recognized for their service when the dust of this issue settles down.
It is discussions such as this, that are bringing this issue into the spotlight. Not too long ago, this matter was not discussed in public and the statements made by the DoD were that “women were not oustside the wire and were not engaged in combat”.
We have made progress, yet I am looking forward to more progress in the near future. The trail blazers have taken the brunt of this situation; they need tro be honored.
JHR
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Thank you Julia. I think this is what we would call the “socializing” phase of this evolution. We talk about it, conduct studies and research, maybe test it out here and there and then it happens. To make it a reality you need people within the military to support this. I know many that do. Ironically enough the majority that don’t are former service members or those who haven’t served. At least those are the folks I have heard from.
John says: Anymouse I feel like you might as well just come out and say that women belong barefoot in the kitchen making you a sandwich.
“I find this trend towards “gender equality” one of the major problems with not just the the US but all modern countries.”
You might be a little behind the times my friend. It is 2012, times change and with them so must we. My mother was and still is a working mother, it did not deter her from being at every event both my brothers or I participated it. My wife is a working mother with a newborn at home, raising my daughter alone while I am in Afghanistan, and frankly it infuriates me that you would suggest she should not have the same rights to do what a man would.
Furthermore the fact that you would refer to same sex couples adopting children as a “great evil” shows how closed minded and bigoted you are.
Women in combat is not one of the things that is wrong with this country. People like you are what is wrong with this country.
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You are simply bigoted against those with traditional values. You are far more bigoted than I. The difference is you have the upper hand, and the current dialectic of history is in your favor.
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It looks like a good bunch of you don’t agree with Anymouse. I think we’ve hit the point where neither side will budge. We are starting to get personnel instead of having a spirited discussion. I respectfully request that each side agree to disagree on this point.
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Agreed. It comes down to completely different politics and views on what is good and bad in society. And that is an unbridgeable chasm.
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Steve Shaffer says: It’s called Freedom, I think that’s what America is about. Freedom of choice, etc. I for one honor anyone that serves in the military whether I would like them personally or not. Yes gender based roles are changing, it started with the industrial revolution.
As for women in the military, I like the way David Weber put it in his Honor Harrington series. One male officer was being asked by another individual how he could serve under a woman. He replied that “We don’t care about a person’s plumbing, just how well they can do the job. She does it better than anyone I know.” (paraphrase from memory).
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“We don’t care about a person’s plumbing, just how well they can do the job. She does it better than anyone I know.” (paraphrase from memory).
Steve, that is awesome! It is exactly how I and most of my friends feel. Mind you most of my friends are Field Grade Officers in the Army. Society is changing….so must the Army.
Kevin,
You are Mr. international and attribute leadership respectively. The ending photogrpah really grabs you with women in leadership like a bull horn. I liked the other pictures too the first one is an attention grabber. You market your points well with this part of your blog and other subjects too. I admire how you push through barriers and boost those who need the uplift women, other authors, soldiers your experience as a trainer, leader. When I have future interviews I wish I could cookie cut what I have learned from your blog, who you are and state here is what I would like from leadership, group, company of people. You pull curtains back in your blog that is what you do. Kevin you also ask the questions, learn, turn, burn for success. May you be blessed.
PS that is a fabulous Father’s Day gift yip you are right you are a father to other’s in your household too:).
Sincerely,
Adriana Johnson
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Hi Adrian! It is so nice to have you back from your vacation!
I like to think I’ve evolved. I like to think that I am open to additional development and evolution. I just respect women Service Members far too much to patronize them. I say re-evaluate the requirements. Yes, those need changing. Then open it up for everyone. If the ladies make it…. then great. If they don’t then great, we can close this discussion. But until we open the ranks woman will never be treated as equals by the combat arms.
This is such a great post and I admire you for writing it. Looks like we were in the 82nd at the same time, though I served in the SSB from 1998-2001. Funny thing is that of all the units I was in, the 82nd was probably one of the most sexist. It felt like a daily battle with my superiors. All of them were ex combat arms with no idea what to do with female subordinates. I drove them crazy with my demands to be treated equally. Sometimes the guys would insist on helping me carry the heavy loads. This usually got their heads bitten off for it, but eventually they realized I could carry my own weight and didn’t need to be coddled. There were numerous instances of discrimination, including men who said women had no business in an Airborne unit. They wouldn’t let any females in my unit go to JRTC (due to a supposed lack of showers – which was a lie) until I took my complaint higher. It was like I had to fight with them over every little thing just to be treated equally. Good thing I love to argue!
Funny thing is, when I re-enlisted to go elsewhere other female soldiers said they’d miss me being there to stick up for them. My own First Sergeant (who I’d argued with the most) begged me to stay all the way up until the day I left. Somewhere along the line I’d taught him to respect a female soldier’s role in the military, despite the many misgivings he had (including his religious beliefs on the matter). The plaque they gave me as my parting gift said “Keep giving them hell”. I served in two other Airborne units after that but the 82nd was probably the most gender biased and challenging.
Let us hope equality continues to get better. Female soldiers have proven their worth time and again, especially since Iraq and Afghanistan.
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Hi Susan. Thanks for sharing your story. It seems that you were a trailblazer in the 82d back in the day. It must have been a daily challenge.
It seems to be that the people who have the least amount of experience working with female service members also have the least respect. Funny how that works huh!
I know tons of folks that after working with female service members gained a profound respect for the dynamics female service members bring to an organization. I am one of those statistics.
I was in the first Persian Gulf War, when it was still strange for women to be going to war. I remember all the articles in the newspapers — “Mother leaving two kids behind to go war” and things like that. One of the hardest things for me — I was a private, and one of only a handful of women in my unit — was how the male senior leadership treated sexual harassment. We had several incidents, one serious. The leadership was more interested in protecting the men who did it and their careers then they were in taking care of their soldiers. The private relies on the officer and the senior enlisted for leadership, and when the leadership says “My career comes before you,” both males and females lose.
Linda Adams
Formerly SPC, USA
Soldier, Storyteller
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That is an amazing story Linda. Thank you for sharing. Now we have a female 4-star General (recently retired) a many female generals and command sergeant majors. I relished having female leaders in my unit as a commander. Times have changed Linda and I think as we evolve as a society so will the military. I predict a time when gender isn’t the question……it will be all about skills, attributes and knowledge. I think folks need to forget about the gender and look at the person.
I just saw this article, several months after you posted it. I’m a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan and have served both in all-male combat arms units and in an integrated unit. In addition, I worked with the French Army in Afghanistan, which allowed some women to serve in direct infantry roles.
I’d just like to make a point for clarification. Allowing women “in combat” has been happening for years and isn’t going to stop. Many women with MOS’s of medic, MP, engineer, helicopter pilot or even truck driver have been involved in direct fire engagements since day one of the Iraq war. I don’t hear many voices, inside or outside the military, insisting that women shouldn’t be allowed in combat.
The point of contention is whether or not women should be allowed in combat arms units. Anyone can just be “in combat”. It doesn’t take any special skill or strength to be shot at, or to be in the vicinity of impacting rockets and mortars. Simply being engaged by the enemy doesn’t make someone a warrior; if it did, all the old, overweight civilian contractors I saw in bunkers during rocket attacks would be in the same category as infantrymen who go looking for a firefight every day.
In Iraq I was a vehicle commander on a convoy escort team. It was a dangerous job, and my team experienced several close calls with IEDs and small arms fire. But the fact that we were in combat did not make us equal to the soldiers performing combat arms roles. We didn’t have to walk tens of kilometers on patrols carrying eighty pounds of gear, we didn’t have to perform difficult small-unit maneuvers under fire in 130 degree heat with body armor on, we weren’t expected to close with and destroy the enemy through fire and close combat. Not many men have the physical stamina to perform such tasks, and statistically speaking many fewer women would be able to.
While I personally believe that anyone qualified and able to maintain the standard should be allowed into combat arms MOS’s, I also see the other side’s points. Opposing a policy of opening up infantry jobs to females isn’t necessarily due to sexism or ignorance. I think many people who support full integration of combat arms units ignore the physical realities involved. In professional and Olympic sports, men and women are separated due to those physical realities. I don’t hear any voices demanding full integration in pro football or basketball, I don’t see female boxers competing against male boxers, I don’t even see a push for integration in non-contact sports like swimming. In the sports arena, where the consequences are nothing more than a title or trophy, women are understood to not be the physical equals of men; yet in the world of infantry combat, where the consequences of failure could be death for the entire unit, some people think women and men should be considered physically equal. This doesn’t make sense.
There is no question that some women could handle the physical and emotional strain of combat arms better than some men. I personally think there are very, very few of them, but they exist. Those women who are capable should be allowed to serve in those roles, provided they attain and maintain the EXACT SAME standard as everyone else. I don’t think women should be excluded from those roles as a matter of policy, but neither do I think we should ignore the realities of life as an infantry soldier, tanker or artilleryman. Combat arms roles require physical attributes in excess of what even the average male possesses. The average female would be even less suited to those roles.
Chris Hernandez
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Hi Chris. Thanks for leaving us your thoughts and thank you for your service.
To deny someone the opportunity based on gender, race, religious, etc is straight discrimination. That is what I believe.
I 100% agree that there can’t be a difference in the requirement for an infantry Soldier (or any other jobs currently closed to women) based on gender. The standard is the standard. Though I think we need to look our standards and set them based on what is truly needed to perform that job. Combat evolves….so must the combat soldier.
I can’t speak for pro or Olympic sports. Though I think it is pretty clear that no woman could beat Michael Phelps at the 100 meter butterfly. You can’t tell me there is proof that a women can’t be an infantryman.
I like to think about it like this……take the gender out…..if a Soldier meets then standards then that is all I care about. Gender, race, religion, sexual preference be damned.
Thanks for sharing this. This is incredible stuff. And thanks for supporting women.
Hi Kevin – I loved reading this great post, as it has both education and experience in it! I have alot of thoughts flying around in my head right now. I just read & reviewed a book written by a female first responder to 9/11 with PTSD, and I’m now reading “Lean In” by Sheryl Sandberg. Both relevant to this discussion. I’m also reading the comments here and they are fascinating. Susan’s viewpoint is quite valid, as this discussion it transcends personal opinion and reaches in to societal transformation and law, and US policies about family and work. I took a look at the other posts you wrote. Love the “cleaning” one…wow. That doesn’t sound like a marriage that’s going to stand the test of time..too many basic differences (speaking as a marriage counselor). Other topics floating around in my thoughts..I am in alot of maternal mental health groups…rape in the military..I read many accounts by women that are very disturbing, very few males talk about this openly. I love your blog. It gives me insight into the military world, one I don;t know much about, but I have many veterans of the continuous wars we now seem to have in my client list. thanks for the insights. Kathy
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Hi Kathy, I’m so glad you can gleam insight into this crazy military world. I think with this specific topic folks focus to much on their societal biases and the obvious reduced female physical strength when compared to their make counterparts. I do believe that 25 years from now we will have moved past this and this issue will be a non topic. Much like race, religion and sexual orientation….all issues that caused some waves in the military but were more issues for the public to debate. Our military is ready for this……. but I’m not so sure society is.
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Kevin,
Thanks for this series of posts. I retired from the Army under duress, which is to say that I was between a rock and a hard place and decided it was best to cut my losses. I never really got over it until recently, and it still stings. I was told – point blank, behind closed doors – that despite being the senior person on staff in my division, I would not have the leadership position because I was a woman. I had office equipment thrown at me by a “peer” who was really a subordinate. I was stripped of my dignity and made the laughing stock of the organization because I was a woman – and for no other reason, after 20 years of service. Even the EO and IG of the installation told me it would be a tough road without a definitive outcome if I pursued a complaint. So I checked out.
I was without a doubt the best person for the job. Prejudices kept me from using my finely honed talents to serve our country on the basis of gender alone.
I am still proud of my service because I know I did the right thing and the best job I could under the circumstances. I have always hoped that the women who came after me had it easier taking their rightful place among their comrades. Then I read recently of a female CSM who was stripped of her authority in much the same way I was at Fort Jackson and it broke my heart. But at least light has been shed on her case.
Thank you for your service and your open-minded leadership. The Army – and the world – could use more people like you!
Hi Susan. Your story is amazing. You were a trailblazer- going where no woman had gone before. I am not surprised with the outcome though. I also wouldn’t be surprised if the person that told you these things behind closed doors had never worked for a woman. They couldn’t or didn’t appreciate what you brought to the team. I hope you know that because of your scarifies you made it easier for some other great female Soldier to come behind you. They probably surpassed where you had been because of you.
Interestingly, the man who told me I would not be allowed to serve in my assigned position as a leader because I was female was a black man! It didn’t surprise me that the white men above him went along with it (not sure it didn’t come from them actually), but I never got over how one minority soldier – who had undoubtedly faced his own challenges to carve a niche for himself – could then inflict the same injustice upon another. Really sad.
And this female CSM at Ft Jackson is living the same story today – at the same installation. A decade has passed and nothing has changed – at least not there.
Best,
Susan
WOW Susan. I am speechless on that one….. um……OK, here goes…… that dude is a huge disappointment. I could say more but I will let you all imagine what is going on in my mind right now.
Well said Kevin. I get sh*t for agreeing with your point of view on this all the time. I’ve seen women fight and lead just as well and in some cases better than their male counterparts. I’ve also lost a friend and fellow handler who was a female, standing IN FRONT, of all the other male troops with her dog clearing their way to safety. I think anyone who says women can’t perform the same jobs has obviously never served with a strong, well trained woman.
You bring up an awesome point John. Once which I want to pontificate on in another posts on this topic.
“I think anyone who says women can’t perform the same jobs has obviously never served with a strong, well trained woman.”
Perfect John…and so true. Spoken from a man today…who is in Afghanistan leading a special forces unit in harms way with his dog.
WOW! Strong sentiments and thank you all for them. I was a reporter an eon ago and I remember being well accepted by the people on the newspaper staff as well as those whom I reported on. I guess that was the exception back then. It’s more than time for the military to do the same.
I really don’t see how we can’t AJ. I am hopeful that in the next few years it will happen. I provided a link in the article in case folks missed it in the news- the movement has already began.
I admit I find this trend towards “gender equality” one of the major problems with not just the the US but all modern countries. I see no reason why the military should follow the rest of the country down that hole. Women should not be encouraged to reject their natural role as caregivers and mothers, and it is indeed harmful for society to follow that path. I firmly oppose what we have in front of us, which is a society where great evils like abortion, gay adoption etc. are tolerated, and I can’t see how the use of women as soldiers does anything other than play into this. Every great civilization has always acknowledged that the place of women is not in combat. I don’t see how utilizing the half of our population who are in a position to become wives and mothers as substitutes for male soldiers is a good idea. The actions taken by higher ranking officers to implement this process through the use of loopholes is inappropriate in the highest. If the entire area is a combat situation, then women should simply be excluded from the area. I know some will find my view old fashioned, but I fail to see how these things would occur in a healthy and traditional country.
Dear Anymouse,
As a woman who honorably served our country for over 20 years, I submit to you that the issue is not any one person’s opinion. We all have them. Rather, the core of this issue is about people having a right to choose their own path and not have it impeded by the prejudices or “opinions” of others. Your viewpoint is a popular one, but it fails to recognize a simple fact: Women have a right to choose their own path (perhaps you’ve heard of the equal rights amendment). We have an all-volunteer military at this time. No woman will be forced into combat in our current system, as no man in our country is forces to that decision, either. But if a woman chooses to do so and is capable and qualified she should be permitted to do so without having to do battle with men who prefer she be at home being their “caregiver.” There are other countries with fully integrated military forces that function well.
If there were no women deployed to hot spots around the world, our fighting force would be inadequate to meet the mission. Interestingly, there are not enough men volunteering for the military to fully staff it.
When the bullets are flying, no one is concerned with gender or sexual preference. The only thing anyone wants to know is if their fellow Soldier can do the job, return fire, and help everyone accomplish the objective and get out alive.
On a less PC note, I really don’t need a man to keep me safe, barefoot, and pregnant. I have a right to make my own choices and would very much like you and those who share your view to get out of the way and let me make them.
Regards,
Susan
I respect your service, but I respectfully state that it is not merely your decision. The military is created by the Federal Government to defend the country and constitution. Modern gender roles are not good for America or other countries. I can’t see how having women in the military does anything other than play into those problems, although I acknowledge there are few social statistics (that I know of) dealing with military service. The native born population in this country barely reproduces itself, if at all. The countries in Europe are even worse. I simply can’t support this kind of social change. It is not healthy.
Societies with young women in paid labor and working mothers are societies that have weakened the family. The more traditional societies such as the Faroe Islands, much of India, our friends and enemy’s in Afghanistan etc. have not experienced those kinds of harmful social changes. I must stand on the side of our traditional culture and society.
You can say you respect my service and then disrespect me as a person in the same sentence and fool a handful of people into thinking you are an honorable person. But you can’t fool me.
Your comments throughout this post reveal that you are not only a bigot (or if you prefer, “traditionalist”) with regard to women’s role in American society, but perhaps bigoted in matters of race, sexual orientation, and even the US Constitution and its amendments. The latter IS the law of the land, Sir, and it gives me the right to choose how I live my life. YOU don’t have a choice about that.
Webster’s Dictionary definition of ‘Bigot’ : a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
Not only that, but you are a coward hiding behind an anonymous internet identity. I wish you well in your pursuit of an old-world life style. Have you considered a geographical cure to your unhappiness? Seems like you have some spots identified that might work well for you.
I, for one, am not going to continue to engage in a pointless and inflammatory dialogue on someone else’s blog.
My apologies, Kevin. You’ve been a good sport. Thanks again for the article.
I believe in my country and traditions, and oppose Liberalism. I see you are offended by what I wrote. I find this devotion to political correctness annoying, although predictable. I posses no bigotry, simply a respect for our society and a respect for biology. Do you honestly believe modern societies are functional in the long run? I simply don’t, and see no evidence it can be made so. The traditional devision of the genders is what is healthiest for society. Women soldiers are not a direct cause of social problems, but they are a symptom of the breakdown of healthy social norms in this country. I won’t comment any more because I can see a lot of people are offended. I will add a few links if you want to find other arguments on this issue.
http://www.thinkinghousewife.com/wp/2011/08/a-heros-testimony-on-women-soldiers/
Dear Anymouse:
Your comment “Women should not be encouraged to reject their natural role as caregivers and mothers, and it is indeed harmful for society to follow that path”. Caught my attention.
Hundreds of thousands of men have served in Afganistan and Iraq. Military children are warriors in their own right as they sacrafice a parent on deployment so that all people can have freedom in the USA.
To date, over 220,000 women have served in Iraq and Afganistan. Over 33% of these women are mothers.
Military children are especially proud of their mothers who fight for their country. They are equally as proud of their mothers and fathers. What kind of role model example does the american woman in the military set for her children?
Valor, Integrity, Strength, Character, Committment, Duty, Honor, etc….
Stay at home wives are incredible; yet this is a PERSONAL choice for each mother to make. And from experience, I can say, a very difficult choice to make.
What was once thought of as “the right hing to do “15-50 years ago” (stay at home) is now considered an option; and one that is difficult to decide.
However, this option is a personal and family choice; to be made by each individual family. It is also a “right” and has been documented by law.
“Stay at home wives are incredible; yet this is a PERSONAL choice for each mother to make. And from experience, I can say, a very difficult choice to make.
What was once thought of as “the right thing to do “15-50 years ago” (stay at home) is now considered an option; and one that is difficult to decide..”
It is sad that society has made that decision difficult. That has been harmful to women, families, and children.
Anymouse:
I agree in part with what you are saying. When I decided to have children, I decided to stay at home and raise them myself. I scheduled my work and projects around my sons schedule. I was proud to be a stay at home mom. Yet when duty called for a special project, our entire family voted on the decision that wasto be made. I would take the project. It was unanimous.
Then, When my son became critically ill with a Gulf War Illness type disease; there was no family decisionto be made. I rushed to his side and stayed there for ten years, never waivering.
Good Moms come in all shapes, sizes and abilities. My son is alive today because I refused to give up, even when he was put into Hospice. My son is also alive today because of the U.S. Military. Never Quit, Never Give Up. Its’ in our blood. He fought to live, so he can serve. A slight example of thisstrength for him, was my dedication to this country, amongst others in the family.
Stay at home Moms deserve as much credit as working moms. I respectfully disagree with you on your point that “It is sad that society has made that decision difficult. That has been harmful to women, families, and children”.
It is not the working Mom that has been harmful to children. But rather lack of Parenting that has probably done far more harm. Just my opinion.
Respectfully,
Julia
Excellent article Kevin. I admire the folks that are “speaking out” about their stories. These are true warriors. To have served our Country with dignity and valor, only to be kicked out due to gender; is akin to reverting back to the dark ages. I admire these womens’ bravery and can only hope that these women will be recognized for their service when the dust of this issue settles down.
It is discussions such as this, that are bringing this issue into the spotlight. Not too long ago, this matter was not discussed in public and the statements made by the DoD were that “women were not oustside the wire and were not engaged in combat”.
We have made progress, yet I am looking forward to more progress in the near future. The trail blazers have taken the brunt of this situation; they need tro be honored.
JHR
Thank you Julia. I think this is what we would call the “socializing” phase of this evolution. We talk about it, conduct studies and research, maybe test it out here and there and then it happens. To make it a reality you need people within the military to support this. I know many that do. Ironically enough the majority that don’t are former service members or those who haven’t served. At least those are the folks I have heard from.
Anymouse I feel like you might as well just come out and say that women belong barefoot in the kitchen making you a sandwich.
“I find this trend towards “gender equality” one of the major problems with not just the the US but all modern countries.”
You might be a little behind the times my friend. It is 2012, times change and with them so must we. My mother was and still is a working mother, it did not deter her from being at every event both my brothers or I participated it. My wife is a working mother with a newborn at home, raising my daughter alone while I am in Afghanistan, and frankly it infuriates me that you would suggest she should not have the same rights to do what a man would.
Furthermore the fact that you would refer to same sex couples adopting children as a “great evil” shows how closed minded and bigoted you are.
Women in combat is not one of the things that is wrong with this country. People like you are what is wrong with this country.
You are simply bigoted against those with traditional values. You are far more bigoted than I. The difference is you have the upper hand, and the current dialectic of history is in your favor.
It looks like a good bunch of you don’t agree with Anymouse. I think we’ve hit the point where neither side will budge. We are starting to get personnel instead of having a spirited discussion. I respectfully request that each side agree to disagree on this point.
Agreed. It comes down to completely different politics and views on what is good and bad in society. And that is an unbridgeable chasm.
It’s called Freedom, I think that’s what America is about. Freedom of choice, etc. I for one honor anyone that serves in the military whether I would like them personally or not. Yes gender based roles are changing, it started with the industrial revolution.
As for women in the military, I like the way David Weber put it in his Honor Harrington series. One male officer was being asked by another individual how he could serve under a woman. He replied that “We don’t care about a person’s plumbing, just how well they can do the job. She does it better than anyone I know.” (paraphrase from memory).
“We don’t care about a person’s plumbing, just how well they can do the job. She does it better than anyone I know.” (paraphrase from memory).
Steve, that is awesome! It is exactly how I and most of my friends feel. Mind you most of my friends are Field Grade Officers in the Army. Society is changing….so must the Army.
Kevin,
You are Mr. international and attribute leadership respectively. The ending photogrpah really grabs you with women in leadership like a bull horn. I liked the other pictures too the first one is an attention grabber. You market your points well with this part of your blog and other subjects too. I admire how you push through barriers and boost those who need the uplift women, other authors, soldiers your experience as a trainer, leader. When I have future interviews I wish I could cookie cut what I have learned from your blog, who you are and state here is what I would like from leadership, group, company of people. You pull curtains back in your blog that is what you do. Kevin you also ask the questions, learn, turn, burn for success. May you be blessed.
PS that is a fabulous Father’s Day gift yip you are right you are a father to other’s in your household too:).
Sincerely,
Adriana Johnson
Hi Adrian! It is so nice to have you back from your vacation!
I like to think I’ve evolved. I like to think that I am open to additional development and evolution. I just respect women Service Members far too much to patronize them. I say re-evaluate the requirements. Yes, those need changing. Then open it up for everyone. If the ladies make it…. then great. If they don’t then great, we can close this discussion. But until we open the ranks woman will never be treated as equals by the combat arms.
This is such a great post and I admire you for writing it. Looks like we were in the 82nd at the same time, though I served in the SSB from 1998-2001. Funny thing is that of all the units I was in, the 82nd was probably one of the most sexist. It felt like a daily battle with my superiors. All of them were ex combat arms with no idea what to do with female subordinates. I drove them crazy with my demands to be treated equally. Sometimes the guys would insist on helping me carry the heavy loads. This usually got their heads bitten off for it, but eventually they realized I could carry my own weight and didn’t need to be coddled. There were numerous instances of discrimination, including men who said women had no business in an Airborne unit. They wouldn’t let any females in my unit go to JRTC (due to a supposed lack of showers – which was a lie) until I took my complaint higher. It was like I had to fight with them over every little thing just to be treated equally. Good thing I love to argue!
Funny thing is, when I re-enlisted to go elsewhere other female soldiers said they’d miss me being there to stick up for them. My own First Sergeant (who I’d argued with the most) begged me to stay all the way up until the day I left. Somewhere along the line I’d taught him to respect a female soldier’s role in the military, despite the many misgivings he had (including his religious beliefs on the matter). The plaque they gave me as my parting gift said “Keep giving them hell”. I served in two other Airborne units after that but the 82nd was probably the most gender biased and challenging.
Let us hope equality continues to get better. Female soldiers have proven their worth time and again, especially since Iraq and Afghanistan.
Hi Susan. Thanks for sharing your story. It seems that you were a trailblazer in the 82d back in the day. It must have been a daily challenge.
It seems to be that the people who have the least amount of experience working with female service members also have the least respect. Funny how that works huh!
I know tons of folks that after working with female service members gained a profound respect for the dynamics female service members bring to an organization. I am one of those statistics.
I was in the first Persian Gulf War, when it was still strange for women to be going to war. I remember all the articles in the newspapers — “Mother leaving two kids behind to go war” and things like that. One of the hardest things for me — I was a private, and one of only a handful of women in my unit — was how the male senior leadership treated sexual harassment. We had several incidents, one serious. The leadership was more interested in protecting the men who did it and their careers then they were in taking care of their soldiers. The private relies on the officer and the senior enlisted for leadership, and when the leadership says “My career comes before you,” both males and females lose.
Linda Adams
Formerly SPC, USA
Soldier, Storyteller
That is an amazing story Linda. Thank you for sharing. Now we have a female 4-star General (recently retired) a many female generals and command sergeant majors. I relished having female leaders in my unit as a commander. Times have changed Linda and I think as we evolve as a society so will the military. I predict a time when gender isn’t the question……it will be all about skills, attributes and knowledge. I think folks need to forget about the gender and look at the person.
I just saw this article, several months after you posted it. I’m a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan and have served both in all-male combat arms units and in an integrated unit. In addition, I worked with the French Army in Afghanistan, which allowed some women to serve in direct infantry roles.
I’d just like to make a point for clarification. Allowing women “in combat” has been happening for years and isn’t going to stop. Many women with MOS’s of medic, MP, engineer, helicopter pilot or even truck driver have been involved in direct fire engagements since day one of the Iraq war. I don’t hear many voices, inside or outside the military, insisting that women shouldn’t be allowed in combat.
The point of contention is whether or not women should be allowed in combat arms units. Anyone can just be “in combat”. It doesn’t take any special skill or strength to be shot at, or to be in the vicinity of impacting rockets and mortars. Simply being engaged by the enemy doesn’t make someone a warrior; if it did, all the old, overweight civilian contractors I saw in bunkers during rocket attacks would be in the same category as infantrymen who go looking for a firefight every day.
In Iraq I was a vehicle commander on a convoy escort team. It was a dangerous job, and my team experienced several close calls with IEDs and small arms fire. But the fact that we were in combat did not make us equal to the soldiers performing combat arms roles. We didn’t have to walk tens of kilometers on patrols carrying eighty pounds of gear, we didn’t have to perform difficult small-unit maneuvers under fire in 130 degree heat with body armor on, we weren’t expected to close with and destroy the enemy through fire and close combat. Not many men have the physical stamina to perform such tasks, and statistically speaking many fewer women would be able to.
While I personally believe that anyone qualified and able to maintain the standard should be allowed into combat arms MOS’s, I also see the other side’s points. Opposing a policy of opening up infantry jobs to females isn’t necessarily due to sexism or ignorance. I think many people who support full integration of combat arms units ignore the physical realities involved. In professional and Olympic sports, men and women are separated due to those physical realities. I don’t hear any voices demanding full integration in pro football or basketball, I don’t see female boxers competing against male boxers, I don’t even see a push for integration in non-contact sports like swimming. In the sports arena, where the consequences are nothing more than a title or trophy, women are understood to not be the physical equals of men; yet in the world of infantry combat, where the consequences of failure could be death for the entire unit, some people think women and men should be considered physically equal. This doesn’t make sense.
There is no question that some women could handle the physical and emotional strain of combat arms better than some men. I personally think there are very, very few of them, but they exist. Those women who are capable should be allowed to serve in those roles, provided they attain and maintain the EXACT SAME standard as everyone else. I don’t think women should be excluded from those roles as a matter of policy, but neither do I think we should ignore the realities of life as an infantry soldier, tanker or artilleryman. Combat arms roles require physical attributes in excess of what even the average male possesses. The average female would be even less suited to those roles.
Chris Hernandez
Hi Chris. Thanks for leaving us your thoughts and thank you for your service.
To deny someone the opportunity based on gender, race, religious, etc is straight discrimination. That is what I believe.
I 100% agree that there can’t be a difference in the requirement for an infantry Soldier (or any other jobs currently closed to women) based on gender. The standard is the standard. Though I think we need to look our standards and set them based on what is truly needed to perform that job. Combat evolves….so must the combat soldier.
I can’t speak for pro or Olympic sports. Though I think it is pretty clear that no woman could beat Michael Phelps at the 100 meter butterfly. You can’t tell me there is proof that a women can’t be an infantryman.
I like to think about it like this……take the gender out…..if a Soldier meets then standards then that is all I care about. Gender, race, religion, sexual preference be damned.
Thanks for sharing this. This is incredible stuff. And thanks for supporting women.
Hi Kevin – I loved reading this great post, as it has both education and experience in it! I have alot of thoughts flying around in my head right now. I just read & reviewed a book written by a female first responder to 9/11 with PTSD, and I’m now reading “Lean In” by Sheryl Sandberg. Both relevant to this discussion. I’m also reading the comments here and they are fascinating. Susan’s viewpoint is quite valid, as this discussion it transcends personal opinion and reaches in to societal transformation and law, and US policies about family and work. I took a look at the other posts you wrote. Love the “cleaning” one…wow. That doesn’t sound like a marriage that’s going to stand the test of time..too many basic differences (speaking as a marriage counselor). Other topics floating around in my thoughts..I am in alot of maternal mental health groups…rape in the military..I read many accounts by women that are very disturbing, very few males talk about this openly. I love your blog. It gives me insight into the military world, one I don;t know much about, but I have many veterans of the continuous wars we now seem to have in my client list. thanks for the insights. Kathy
Hi Kathy, I’m so glad you can gleam insight into this crazy military world. I think with this specific topic folks focus to much on their societal biases and the obvious reduced female physical strength when compared to their make counterparts. I do believe that 25 years from now we will have moved past this and this issue will be a non topic. Much like race, religion and sexual orientation….all issues that caused some waves in the military but were more issues for the public to debate. Our military is ready for this……. but I’m not so sure society is.